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Coel Hellier's avatar

Your piece contains a lot of sense, but perhaps errs in just accepting the "mainstream" account of how Christianity originated.

> "This flow hides how stories about an apocalyptic human Jewish preacher developed into competing stories about a divine being who existed before creation"

Except that, as you yourself then say, the earlist writings (Paul's letters) contain almost nothing about a "human" Jesus. Paul seems to have no conception of Jesus as a recently-lived human. Instead, Paul seems to regard Jesus as a divine being who is known from scripture and from visions. So, the development of the stories could be the reverse of your statement.

Just as one example, what does Paul do after becoming a Christian on the Road to Damascus? Surely he would have gone immediately to talk to all the Christians who had lived alongside Jesus, and asked them everything they could tell him about Jesus?

But no, what he actually does is, not talk to any Christian, but instead wander around Arabia for three years (which only makes sense if, in Paul's mind, the only source of information is scripture and visions).

Then when he does go to meet other Christians he explicitly tells us that he got none of his teachings from any person (only direct from Jesus in visions, plus scripture). So, Paul was totally unaware of "Q" or any similar oral accounts.

> " then move on to the eloquent quotations of Q ..."

Except there's no evidence at all for Q. The hypothesis of Q comes purely from scholars refusing to even counternance the possibility of gospel writers simply making stuff up, so they must have got it from somewhere, so let's hypothesize Q.

But if Paul seems utterly unaware of Q, or anything along those lines, then doesn't that suggest that there was no Q, nor anything similar?

> "The Gospel called Mark was written about 65-70 CE."

How do you know that? It was almost certainly written post AD71, after the destruction of the Jewish temple. That's because the work seems to be a theological allegory, linking stories of the death of Jesus to the destruction of the temple (several passages explicitly do this).

There's actually little evidence for the existence of the gospels prior to Marcion in about AD 130s. Maybe Marcionism was the original Christianity (later superseded by the now orthodox Christians, who denounced earlier versions as heresy); Marcion was, after all, the first person with a version of the New Testament.

Thus, dating of "Mark" is perhaps somewhere AD71 to AD140. (Ditto for the other gospels.)

> " These were written about 80-85 CE, and the author of Luke wrote the Book of Acts around the same time."

The Acts Seminar dated Acts to about 110 to 120 AD (for a whole set of reasons that are hard to summarise). That would then put "Luke" in a similar timeframe.

So, there's a whole alternative scenario along the lines:

1) Early Christians (Paul) thought of Jesus as divine (not as a recently lived human).

2) Post the AD-70s revolt, "Mark" wrote a theological allegory that storified Jesus and turned the destruction of the temple into the death of the messiah.

3) Somewhere AD 100 to AD 130, "Matthew", "Luke" and others embellished and added to the story, putting their own theological spin on it. The crucial bit being that all of these gospel stories were largely made up for theological reasons.

4) Different conceptions of Jesus competed for dominance (check out the large number of 2nd-century Christian writers whose works are called "against heresy" or similar). What is now the mainstream won out, over the Marcionites and others.

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